A Chat with ChatGPT

A Chat with ChatGPT –

Bible Study Made Easy?

You need to know the general answer to a question before you ask,

Or ChatGPT will likely lead you to a very convincing falsehood!

Please feel free to print this off and share it anywhere, with anyone and everyone. There is a Download button at the bottom of the page.

A Chat with ChatGPT – Bible Study Made Easy?

I asked ChatGPT about ‘The Rapture’ and followed up each answer from ChatGPT with further questions. The resulting ‘conversation’ highlights that you need to know the general answer to a question before you ask, and to ask further questions, otherwise ChatGPT, or any AI solution for that matter, will likely lead you to a very convincing falsehood. In its answers, ChatGPT generally does not use definitive language, often even in the face of facts, as it tends to frame response on common beliefs. However, when prompted, its answer become more definitive.

This demonstrates that ChatGPT tries to synthesise material that seems to answer a question based on generally accepted beliefs rather than absolute logic and fact. While ChatGPT can find scriptures and information about a topic quickly, it’s accuracy can be questionable, often presenting false interpretations. When presented with its own contradicting answers, ChatGPT ‘admitted’ its error and provided more accurate results. In the end, ChatGPT’s conclusion is reasonably on point, but presented many twists and falsehoods on the way, therefore, read with caution!

The Questions are my input, the rest is ChatGPT’s response except for a few (Editor’s Notes:). The following has also been minimally edited for style.

List of Questions presented:

What is the rapture, give biblical references using King James Version?
When does the rapture occur?
How does that tie in with 1 Corinthians 15:51–52?
What causes the end of the tribulation?
Ok, if the tribulation ends with the second coming of Christ, when is the rapture?
But didn’t you just say that 1 Corinthians 15:51–52 defines when people will be raptured?
Where in the bible does it state that the Last Trumpet refers to the final call for the church?
So, then Christ returns at the last trumpet, the dead are raised and those who are alive rise to meet him in the clouds and this is at the end of the tribulation?
So, are you saying Christ’s second coming occurs twice?
But does not the Bible say that when Christ returns, He will set up His government and that there shall be no end to its increase. How therefore could this occur at the beginning of the tribulation when the governments and the “beast” will take over the world?

Question 1: What is the rapture, give biblical references using King James Version?

The rapture refers to the event when believers in Jesus Christ are caught up “raptured” from the earth to meet Him in the air, according to several New Testament passages. The word “rapture” itself does not appear in the Bible, but comes from the Latin word “rapturo” (from the Greek “harpazō”, meaning “caught up” or “snatched away”), used in early Latin translations of the Bible.

Below are key biblical references and explanations:

1. The Foundational Passage:

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is the clearest description of the rapture. Believers who have died (“the dead in Christ”) will rise first, and those still living will be “caught up” to meet Jesus in the air. This happens before they return to earth to reign with Him.

2. A Mystery Revealed:

1 Corinthians 15:51–52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

Paul reveals a “mystery” — some believers will not die (“sleep”) but will be instantly transformed. This corresponds to the rapture when believers receive glorified bodies.

3. Jesus’ Promise to Receive His Followers:

John 14:2–3 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”

Jesus promises to return to take His followers to be with Him — consistent with the rapture concept, where He receives believers rather than returning directly to judge the world.

4. The “Escape” from Coming Judgment:

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

Jesus tells believers to be ready to escape the coming tribulation. Many interpret this as referring to the rapture, occurring before God’s final judgments.

5. Christ’s Coming as Sudden and Unexpected:

Matthew 24:40–42 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.”

This describes a sudden separation — one taken, one left — often associated with the rapture. The key emphasis is readiness, since the timing is unknown.

6. Deliverance from Wrath:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”

These verses support the belief that the church (true believers) will be delivered from the coming period of divine wrath — the Tribulation — implying a pre-tribulation rapture.

(Editor’s Note: Our subsequent questions show that this reasoning is incorrect and that these particular scriptures are incorrectly applied.)

Question 2: When does the rapture occur?

The Bible does not state an exact timing for the rapture, but several interpretations arise from how people understand prophetic passages about the Tribulation (a future time of great suffering and divine judgment on earth).

Below is a clear summary of the main views, with scriptural reasoning for each.

1. Pre-Tribulation Rapture. The rapture happens before the 7-year Tribulation begins.

(Editor’s Note: ChatGPT’s reference to 7 years is addressed in another article.)

Key Idea: Believers are caught up to be with Christ before God’s wrath is poured out on the earth. The Church is not appointed to wrath.

Scriptures used to support this idea.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 …Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world…”
John 14:3 I will come again, and receive you unto myself.”

This view holds that Jesus comes for His saints before the Tribulation, taking them to heaven. Later, He returns with His saints (Revelation 19:11–14) at the end of the Tribulation to establish His kingdom.

The Church is raptured before the Tribulation. This is the most common view among evangelical and dispensational believers.

2. Mid-Tribulation Rapture. The rapture happens halfway through the 7-year Tribulation.

Key Idea: Believers endure the first 3½ years (a time of human and natural distress), but are taken up before the Great Tribulation (the last 3½ years of intense divine wrath).

Supporting Scriptures:

Daniel 9:27 — The Tribulation lasts “one week” (interpreted as seven years).
Revelation 11:15 — The seventh trumpet sounds halfway through.
1 Corinthians 15:52 …at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

They connect the “last trump” in 1 Corinthians 15:52 with the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11, suggesting the rapture happens mid-Tribulation.

The Church is raptured in the middle of the Tribulation, before the worst judgments fall.

3. Post-Tribulation Rapture. The rapture and Christ’s Second Coming occur together at the end of the Tribulation.

Key Idea: The Church remains on earth through the Tribulation, is protected by God, and is caught up to meet Christ as He returns to reign.

Supporting Scriptures:

Matthew 24:29–31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days… they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven… and he shall send his angels… and they shall gather together his elect…”
John 6:40 …and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Revelation 20:4–6 — Saints reign with Christ after His return.

This view sees no separate event for the rapture and Christ’s return; they are the same moment.The Church is raptured after the Tribulation, immediately before Christ’s Millennial Kingdom begins.

4. Pre-Wrath Rapture. The rapture happens late in the Tribulation, but before God’s direct wrath begins.

Key Idea: Believers experience part of the Tribulation (human persecution and Antichrist’s rule) but are taken before the “Day of the Lord” judgments fall.

Supporting Scriptures:

Matthew 24:21–22 — Great Tribulation shortened for the elect’s sake.
Revelation 6:17 — “The great day of his wrath is come.”
1 Thessalonians 5:9 — “Not appointed to wrath.”

The rapture occurs sometime before God’s wrath, but after most of the Tribulation events begin

Final Thought: The exact timing is not explicitly stated in Scripture. What is emphasized repeatedly is readiness and watchfulness:

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.”

1 John 3:2–3 …when he shall appear, we shall be like him… And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”

Question 3: How does that tie in with 1 Corinthians 15:51–52?

Let’s look closely at 1 Corinthians 15:51–52 and see how it ties into the rapture and its timing.

What It Teaches – A “Mystery” Revealed

Paul says, “I shew you a mystery.” In the Bible, a mystery is something previously hidden but now revealed by divine revelation.
The “mystery” here: Not all believers will die (“sleep”), but all will be instantly transformed into immortal, glorified bodies.

This matches 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17, where those alive are “caught up” without dying.

Instantaneous Transformation

The change happens “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.” That’s instant, not gradual.
The result:
- The dead are raised incorruptible (no longer subject to decay).
- The living are changed (made immortal).

This describes the same supernatural event as the rapture — the physical transformation of believers to meet Christ.

“At the Last Trump”

Here’s where timing debates arise. The phrase “at the last trump” is interpreted differently in the main rapture views.

How Each View Understands “the Last Trump”

View	Interpretation of “Last Trump”	Timing Implication
Pre-Tribulation	The last trumpet for the Church, not the same as the trumpets in Revelation (those are judgements). It signals the end of the Church Age.	The rapture happens before the Tribulation begins.
Mid-Tribulation	The seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15 is the “last trump,” which sounds mid-Tribulation.	The rapture happens midway through the Tribulation.
Post-Tribulation	“Last trump” means the final trumpet blast at Christ’s visible return (Matthew 24:31).	The rapture happens at the end of the Tribulation.

Context Clues Favouring the Rapture Connection

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul is not talking about judgment trumpets or wrath — he’s teaching about resurrection and victory over death.

“Death is swallowed up in victory.” (v.54)

The trumpet here is a call to assembly, not destruction — consistent with Numbers 10:2, where trumpets called God’s people to gather.
Compare with 1 Thessalonians 4:16: …with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. — The same trumpet call gathers believers to Christ — not the trumpet judgments of Revelation.

Summary: How 1 Corinthians 15:51–52 Ties into the Rapture

Aspect	1 Corinthians 15:51–52	1 Thessalonians 4:16–17	Connection
The dead raised	“The dead shall be raised incorruptible”	“The dead in Christ shall rise first”	Both describe resurrection of believers
Living believers changed	“We shall all be changed”	“We which are alive… shall be caught up”	Both describe transformation of the living
Trumpet sounds	“At the last trump”	“With the trump of God”	Same signal for the event
Instant event	“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye”	“Caught up… to meet the Lord in the air”	Both happen suddenly and supernaturally
Result	“We shall be changed”	“So shall we ever be with the Lord”	Both end with eternal union with Christ

In Simple Terms

1 Corinthians 15:51–52 describes what happens during the rapture — resurrection and transformation.
1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 describes how it happens — the Lord descends, the trumpet sounds, and believers are caught up.
Together, they form the most complete biblical picture of the rapture event.

(Editor’s Note: Only one interpretation can be correct. We must lead ChatGPT to evaluate its responses in light of what the Bible says, not commonly held beliefs.)

Question 4: What causes the end of the tribulation?

According to Scripture, the Tribulation (the 7-year period of judgment and distress described in Daniel and Revelation) ends when Jesus Christ Himself returns to earth in visible power and glory to defeat the Antichrist, destroy the wicked, and establish His millennial kingdom.

Let’s walk through this clearly and step by step.

1. The Tribulation Begins. The Tribulation begins with a seven-year covenant made by a coming world ruler — the Antichrist — as prophesied by Daniel.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate…”

The “one week” = 7 years (each prophetic “day” = one year).
The breaking of this covenant halfway through marks the start of the Great Tribulation (the last 3½ years).
This 7-year period is a time of divine judgment on a rebellious world and Israel’s refining (Jeremiah 30:7).

2. The Great Tribulation Culminates in Global Rebellion. By the end of the 7 years, the Antichrist (the “beast”) leads the nations in open war against God.

Revelation 16:13–14 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon… For they are the spirits of devils… which go forth unto the kings of the earth… to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

The world’s armies are gathered at Armageddon (Megiddo in Israel) to fight against Jerusalem and against Christ.

3. The Tribulation Ends with the Second Coming of Christ. The Tribulation comes to its climax and end when Jesus Christ returns from heaven — visibly, gloriously, and with power.

Matthew 24:29–30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened… And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven… and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 19:11–16 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. …And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The “armies” with Him are the redeemed saints — raptured believers returning with Christ. He descends to the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4) and defeats the world’s armies.

4. Christ Destroys the Antichrist and False Prophet. The Lord’s return brings instant judgment on the Antichrist and his forces.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

Revelation 19:19–20 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet… These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Antichrist and the False Prophet are the first beings cast into the lake of fire. Their defeat marks the end of the Tribulation and the beginning of Christ’s visible reign on earth.

5. Satan Is Bound for 1,000 Years. After the Tribulation, Satan himself is restrained for the duration of Christ’s kingdom.

Revelation 20:1–3 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit… And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit… that he should deceive the nations no more…

This begins the Millennial Kingdom, a 1,000-year reign of Christ on earth.

6. Summary: What Causes the End of the Tribulation

Event	Scripture (KJV)	Description
Antichrist gathers nations	Rev. 16:13–16	Armies gathered to fight at Armageddon
Christ returns in glory	Matt. 24:29–30; Rev. 19:11–16	Jesus returns from heaven with His saints
Antichrist destroyed	2 Thess. 2:8; Rev. 19:19–20	Christ defeats the beast and false prophet
Satan bound	Rev. 20:1–3	Devil imprisoned for 1,000 years
Millennial Kingdom begins	Rev. 20:4–6	Christ reigns on earth with His saints

Therefore: The Tribulation ends when Jesus Christ personally returns to earth in glory, destroys the Antichrist at Armageddon, and begins His thousand-year reign of peace. (Matthew 24:29–30; Revelation 19:11–21; 20:1–6)

Question 5: Ok, if the tribulation ends with the second coming of Christ, when is the rapture?

(Editor’s Note: The following analysis is based on a false premiss, and ChatGPT ignores a key scripture that it had already brought to our attention. We address that in the next question.)

Let’s walk carefully through the sequence according to Scripture and the way different passages fit together.

1. What We Know for Certain from the Bible. There will be a rapture — a sudden catching up of believers:

The Tribulation ends when Christ visibly returns to earth with His saints:

Revelation 19:11–14 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse… And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

2. The Key Detail — Christ Comes For His Saints, Then With His Saints

Event	Description	Key Scripture (KJV)
Rapture	Christ comes for His saints — believers meet Him “in the air.”	1 Thess. 4:16–17
Second Coming	Christ comes with His saints — returning to earth in power.	Rev. 19:11–14; Zech. 14:5

That distinction is very important. If believers come with Christ at His Second Coming (Revelation 19:14), then they must have already been with Him — meaning the rapture must occur before that event.

3. Why Many Believe the Rapture Happens Before the Tribulation. Let’s examine the main scriptural reasons, not opinions:

A. The Church is not appointed to wrath

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 …Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Tribulation is described as the time of God’s wrath:

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Since believers are not appointed to wrath, they are removed before that wrath begins.

B. Christ Promised to Keep His Church from the Hour of Trial

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

That phrase “keep thee from the hour” means keep out of — not merely protected during it.

C. The Rapture is Imminent — Could Happen at Any Moment

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

If the rapture were at the end of the Tribulation, it would be predictable — tied to specific events (the rise of Antichrist, abomination of desolation, etc.). But the Bible presents it as sudden and unannounced.

D. The Church is Absent During the Tribulation Narrative. In Revelation chapters 4–18, which describe the judgments of the Tribulation, the Church is not mentioned once.

In Revelation 4:1, John hears: “Come up hither” and is taken to heaven — many see this as a picture of the rapture of the Church.

The next time the saints appear is Revelation 19:14, already in heaven and returning with Christ.

4. Timeline According to Scripture (KJV)

Sequence	Event	Key Verses
1.	Rapture of the Church – Christ comes for His saints; believers meet Him in the air	1 Thess. 4:16–17; 1 Cor. 15:51–52
2.	Tribulation begins – Antichrist confirms covenant with Israel	Dan. 9:27; Rev. 6–18
3.	Great Tribulation – final 3½ years of severe judgments	Matt. 24:21; Rev. 13
4.	Second Coming of Christ – Christ returns with His saints, defeats Antichrist at Armageddon	Rev. 19:11–21; Zech. 14:3–5
5.	Millennial Kingdom – Christ reigns 1,000 years	Rev. 20:1–6

5. In Plain Terms

The Rapture happens before the Tribulation — Christ takes His Church to heaven.
The Tribulation runs its 7-year course of judgment and chaos.
The Second Coming ends the Tribulation — Christ returns with His saints to rule the earth.

So, in sequence: Rapture → Tribulation → Second Coming → Millennium

Key Summary Verses

Rapture: “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up…” (1 Thess. 4:17)
Tribulation: “For then shall be great tribulation…” (Matthew 24:21)
Second Coming: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse…” (Revelation 19:11)
Millennial Kingdom: “And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:4)

Question 6: But didn’t you just say that 1 Corinthians 15:51–52 defines when people will be raptured?

(Editor’s Note: Here ChatGPT refers to a belief, not facts and has to be brought back to the scriptures in the next question.)

Let’s look closely at 1 Corinthians 15:51–52 (KJV) and clarify what it tells us — and what it doesn’t about when the rapture happens.

1 Corinthians 15:51–52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

What This Passage Does Tell Us

It’s about the Rapture itself — the instant transformation of believers.

“We shall not all sleep” = not everyone will die.
“We shall all be changed” = those alive will be instantly glorified.
“In the twinkling of an eye” = sudden, instantaneous event.

It describes how and what happens — not the tribulation timing.

Paul focuses on the nature of the event (mystery, transformation, resurrection).
He does not place it within the tribulation timeline in this passage.

The “last trump” here refers to the final call for the Church — not the trumpets of judgment in Revelation.

The trump in 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thess. 4:16 is God’s trumpet for believers, calling the Church to heaven.
The trumpets in Revelation 8–11 are angelic trumpets of wrath on the world.
Two completely different contexts and purposes.

What This Passage Does Not Tell Us

It does not specify when in prophetic history this happens — only what will happen and how fast.

To find the timing relative to the Tribulation, we have to combine it with other passages — especially:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 – “Jesus… delivered us from the wrath to come.”
1 Thessalonians 5:9 – “God hath not appointed us to wrath.”
Revelation 3:10 – “I will keep thee from the hour of temptation…”
Revelation 19:14 – “The armies which were in heaven followed him…” (the saints already in heaven before the Second Coming).

So Putting It Together:

1 Corinthians 15:51–52 = What happens at the rapture.
1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 = Where it happens (in the air).
Other passages (Rev. 3:10, 1 Thess. 5:9) = When it happens (before God’s wrath).

Therefore:

1 Corinthians 15:51–52 describes the rapture event itself — the transformation of the living and resurrection of the dead in Christ — but does not define the timing relative to the Tribulation.

The timing (before the Tribulation) is inferred by comparing Scripture with Scripture, especially the promises that believers will be spared from God’s wrath.

Question 7: Where in the bible does it state that the Last Trumpet refers to the final call for the church?

The Bible never explicitly says that “the last trump” in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is the final call for the Church.

That phrase — “the last trump” — appears only once in Scripture, in 1 Corinthians 15:52. So, to understand what Paul meant, we have to look at context and Scripture’s use of trumpets elsewhere. Let’s break that down carefully.

What the Text Actually Says

Paul gives no direct cross-reference to another trumpet here — only that a trumpet will sound as believers are changed.

Comparison Passage — 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.”

The trumpet in both passages signals the same event — the resurrection and catching up of believers. Paul wrote both letters to the same audience (the Church) and described the same transformation event.

So the “last trump” in 1 Corinthians 15 is best understood as the same “trump of God” in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

Why It’s Called “the Last Trump”

Paul doesn’t call it “last” because it’s the final trumpet in history, but because it’s the final trumpet for the Church — the culminating call of the Church age, when believers are gathered to Christ.

This interpretation is based on contextual inference, not an explicit verse. It’s derived from how trumpets were used throughout Scripture:

In the Old Testament:

Trumpets summoned God’s people (Numbers 10:1–4).
One trumpet gathered the leaders, two gathered the whole congregation.
Trumpets were also used to signal movement (Numbers 10:5–7).

Thus, Paul — a Jew steeped in those traditions — may have used “last trump” to describe the final gathering trumpet for God’s people before the next phase of His plan (the Tribulation).

Why It’s Not the Same as Revelation’s Trumpets

The “seven trumpets” in Revelation 8–11:

Are judgment trumpets, sounded by angels, not by God Himself.
Occur during the Tribulation.
Bring plagues and wrath upon the earth.

Whereas:

The “last trump” of 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4 is a trump of blessing, sounded for the Church, not of wrath.

Different trumpeters, purposes, and contexts — so the “last trump” of 1 Corinthians 15 cannot logically be the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11.

So, To Be Precise

There is no verse that explicitly defines “the last trump” as the final call for the Church. That phrase comes from doctrinal inference — comparing 1 Corinthians 15 with 1 Thessalonians 4, and contrasting them with Revelation’s trumpets of judgement.

Question 8: So, then Christ returns at the last trumpet, the dead are raised and those who are alive rise to meet him in the clouds and this is at the end of the tribulation?

That’s a thoughtful and logical synthesis — and you’re describing what’s often called the “post-tribulation rapture” position. Let’s unpack that carefully and compare what Scripture actually says, since this issue turns on how the trumpet, resurrection, and return passages fit together.

1. What the Texts Clearly Describe

1 Corinthians 15:51–52 …we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Both passages describe:

Christ’s descent from heaven,
resurrection of the dead in Christ,
transformation of the living believers,
meeting the Lord in the air.

These verses do not specify whether this happens before, during, or after the tribulation; the timing question comes from how we connect these with other passages like Matthew 24 and Revelation 19.

2. The “Post-Trib” Reading (as you just summarized)

Those who hold the post-tribulation view reason like this:

Jesus’ Second Coming and the rapture are one event.
- Matthew 24:29-31 says: Immediately after the tribulation … he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect … — That sounds like a trumpet-blast gathering after the tribulation.
The “last trumpet” in 1 Corinthians 15 would then correspond to that final trumpet call when Christ appears in glory.
Therefore, the dead are raised and believers caught up at the end of the tribulation, immediately as Christ returns to establish His kingdom.

That reading has real textual appeal, especially because Matthew 24’s “great trumpet” and Revelation 11’s seventh trumpet both occur after tribulational judgments.

3. The Pre-Trib Alternative (for comparison)

Pre-trib interpreters distinguish two phases of Christ’s coming:

He comes for His saints (rapture, 1 Thess 4; 1 Cor 15).
Later He comes with His saints (Revelation 19).

They argue that:

The Church is promised deliverance “from the wrath to come” (1 Thess 1:10; 5:9).
The “last trump” is the final call for the Church age, not the seventh judgment trumpet.
Hence the rapture occurs before the tribulation, and the second coming after it.

4. What Can Be Said with Certainty

The resurrection and transformation of believers happen at Christ’s coming (1 Cor 15:23; 1 Thess 4:16-17).
The timing relative to the tribulation is not explicitly stated in these verses; that’s where interpretive models differ.
Scripture clearly teaches believers should be ready at all times, because the exact moment is unknown (Matthew 24:42-44).

Question 9: So, are you saying Christ’s second coming occurs twice?

That’s an excellent and very important question — one that goes right to the heart of how people understand biblical prophecy.

The short answer is: No — Christ’s “Second Coming” happens only once. But many interpreters believe that His coming unfolds in two phases within that one return program. Let’s unpack that carefully and biblically.

1. Scripture Is Clear: Christ Comes Again — Once

Jesus promised to return:

John 14:3 I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The New Testament consistently calls that return His second coming:

Hebrews 9:28 …unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

So there are only two comings in the broad sense:

His first coming — to die and rise again.
His second coming — to reign and judge.

2. Why People Speak of “Two Phases”

Many Bible teachers notice that the prophecies about Christ’s return describe two very different scenes:

Aspect	“Rapture” Texts	“Second Coming” Texts
Where He appears	In the air (1 Thess 4:17)	To the earth (Zech 14:4; Rev 19:11–16)
Who sees Him	Believers only	The whole world (Rev 1:7; Matt 24:30)
Purpose	To gather His Church	To judge and reign
Mood	Deliverance & hope	Wrath & war
Result	Believers taken to heaven	Christ establishes earthly kingdom

Because these sets of descriptions don’t easily fit into a single instant, some conclude that Christ’s second coming has two stages within one general “return”:

Rapture phase – Christ comes for His saints (1 Thess 4:16-17; 1 Cor 15:51-52).
Revelation phase – Christ comes with His saints in glory (Rev 19:11-14; Zech 14:5).

3. Other Christians View It as One Event

Others—often called post-tribulationists—say:

There is no biblical reason to split the coming into phases. Christ comes once at the end of the tribulation; at that same moment, believers are caught up to meet Him and accompany Him as He descends.

They point to: Matthew 24:29-31 — “Immediately after the tribulation… he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect.”

And 1 Thess 4:17 — Believers “meet the Lord in the air,” perhaps to escort Him to earth.

4. So, What’s Being Said

The Bible speaks of one Second Coming.
The debate is whether that coming happens in two closely connected phases (rapture first, visible return later) or as one single public event at the end of the tribulation.
Either way, believers agree: The Lord himself shall descend from heaven. (1 Thess 4:16) and we should … watch therefore, for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. (Matt 24:42)

Would you like me to show how the main prophetic passages (1 Thess 4, 1 Cor 15, Matt 24, Rev 19) align in both models—one-event vs. two-phase—so you can see exactly where the interpretations diverge?

Question 10: But does not the Bible say that when Christ returns, He will set up His government and that there shall be no end to its increase. How therefore could this occur at the beginning of the tribulation when the governments and the “beast” will take over the world?

Yes — you are correct that when Christ returns, Scripture teaches that He will establish His kingdom on earth, one that never ends.

That reality is what makes the pre-tribulation “two-phase” model difficult for many readers: if Christ’s return begins His everlasting rule, how could He “return” once for the Church, leave again, and then return again after the Tribulation?

Let’s look carefully at what the Bible actually says.

1. Christ’s Return and His Eternal Kingdom

Daniel 7:13–14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven… And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away…

Isaiah 9:6–7 …and the government shall be upon his shoulder… Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end…

Revelation 11:15 The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

These verses all describe the same event — the visible, triumphant return of Christ at the end of history, when He takes control of the world’s governments and establishes His eternal reign.

That can only happen after the rebellion of the Antichrist (“the beast”) has been crushed.

2. The Beast’s Reign Comes Before Christ’s Reign

In Revelation 13, the “beast” (Antichrist) is given authority over the nations:

Revelation 13:5–7 …power was given unto him to continue forty and two months… and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

That’s the final world government during the Great Tribulation, a counterfeit rule before Christ’s kingdom.

Then in Revelation 19:11–16 Christ returns:And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse… and in righteousness he doth judge and make war… And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Immediately after that, in Revelation 20:4, we read: …and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

That’s the Millennial Kingdom, the visible rule of Christ on earth — the beginning of the government “of which there shall be no end.”

3. Therefore, the Order Is:

Tribulation / Beast’s rule — evil dominates the world (Rev. 6–18; 13).
Second Coming of Christ — destroys the beast and false prophet (Rev. 19:11–21).
Christ’s Kingdom established — reign begins (Rev. 20:1–6).

This means Christ cannot establish His government at the beginning of the Tribulation, because the world is still under the beast’s rule during that time. His reign begins after that period, at His visible return.

4. So Where Does the “Rapture” Fit?

That’s where the interpretation differs:

Pre-trib view: the rapture happens before the tribulation; Christ’s visible return (and kingdom setup) happens later.
Post-trib view: the rapture is part of that visible return — believers rise to meet Christ as He descends, and together they accompany Him to establish His kingdom.

Your question points out that the post-trib view fits more straightforwardly with the prophecies about Christ’s everlasting rule, because His return and the inauguration of His kingdom are one continuous event.

Summary

Event	Description	Scriptural Support
Reign of the Beast	Global government of evil during the tribulation	Rev. 13:5–7
Return of Christ	Visible, triumphant coming in glory	Rev. 19:11–16
Establishment of His Kingdom	Christ reigns, “of the increase… there shall be no end”	Isa. 9:7; Rev. 20:4
Eternal Continuation	His rule never ends	Dan. 7:14; Rev. 11:15

Therefore: When Christ returns in glory (at the end of the tribulation), He destroys the beast, ends the rebellion of earthly powers, and establishes His everlasting kingdom.

There’s no scriptural picture of His government beginning before the tribulation or while the beast still rules.

Would you like me to lay out a verse-by-verse flow from Revelation 13 through 20 that shows exactly how the beast’s rule ends and Christ’s kingdom begins? It makes this sequence crystal clear from the KJV text itself.

I asked ChatGPT to do just that, you can see it’s response here.

Summary

In the end we were able to guide the AI engine to use the facts that it had found to come to the right conclusion. We had to present it with it’s own conclusions when it went astray, but it acknowledge it’s error and corrected it’s output. We asked more questions and eventually AI presented the truth.

The rapture is an event pictured in the scriptures (though the word itself is not used but comes from the Latin translations).
It occurs when Christ returns to set up His Kingdom on earth.
It happens at the end of the tribulation.
It happens at the Last Trumpet.
The dead in Christ will rise first then those called to be part of the First Fruits who are alive will rise to meet Christ in the air (the rapture).
Both groups will be changed, in a moment, from mortal to immortal and shall be with Christ for evermore.

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